Episode 2: How to stop feeling like an imposter at work

Speaker: 00:00:05

Welcome to Unstuck and Unstoppable,

the podcast for ambitious female

2

: 00:00:10

leaders who want to create more impact,

income, and influence in their careers.

3

: 00:00:14

feel connected to their passion

and purpose, but without

4

: 00:00:17

selling out or burning out.

5

: 00:00:20

I'm Sarah Archer, a leadership coach

and career strategist, helping women

6

: 00:00:24

like you thrive in leadership roles

while staying true to your values.

7

: 00:00:29

I'm the founder of CareerTree

Coaching and have over 15 years of

8

: 00:00:33

coaching experience and significant HR

leadership experience to share with you.

9

: 00:00:39

I know as a female leader it can

be hard to find time to focus

10

: 00:00:43

on your career aspirations.

11

: 00:00:45

The day job can be all consuming.

12

: 00:00:48

Plus, no matter how senior you are,

there are always going to be times

13

: 00:00:52

when you feel stuck, when you have

self doubt, or feel like an imposter.

14

: 00:00:57

And that's where unstuck

and unstoppable comes in.

15

: 00:01:01

Each week I'll be sharing practical

strategies, insightful interviews and

16

: 00:01:06

inspiring stories to help you boost

your confidence, lead with purpose

17

: 00:01:10

and achieve sustainable success.

18

: 00:01:13

If you're ready to stop playing

small and unlock the incredible

19

: 00:01:17

potential you have within you and feel

unstoppable, you're in the right place.

20

: 00:01:22

Let's get started.

21

: 00:01:30

Welcome to episode two of the

Unstuck and Unstoppable podcast.

22

: 00:01:35

I am so pleased you're here.

23

: 00:01:36

The reason I chose today's session was

because this is a topic that comes up

24

: 00:01:42

quite often for clients that I might be

working with, either through my leadership

25

: 00:01:46

programs or through my career confidence

program, transform your confidence.

26

: 00:01:52

as I'm going to explain the statistics

show that, a lot of people imposter

27

: 00:01:58

at different points in their career.

28

: 00:01:59

And so I thought it would be useful to

do a session on imposter feelings and

29

: 00:02:06

give you a technique to help you start

to work on it because obviously we can't

30

: 00:02:11

in 15 minutes, and I'll explain why as we

go through this, switch it around so you

31

: 00:02:16

no longer have those imposter feelings.

32

: 00:02:19

It is a process of addressing the thinking

patterns that have emerged, but I'm going

33

: 00:02:25

to give you a technique to kickstart that

process if you feel this is something that

34

: 00:02:30

you might be grappling with at the moment.

35

: 00:02:34

And if it's something you want

to work with me on a deeper level

36

: 00:02:37

with, then you can just message me

directly and have a chat about it.

37

: 00:02:41

There will be a strategy to take away

to begin to work on tackling this.

38

: 00:02:47

you might be feeling that, sometimes

you're a fraud at work, sometimes you

39

: 00:02:53

might be worried that you're going to be

found out, maybe you think you're going to

40

: 00:02:56

be exposed as not being as good as people

think you are, you might have a level of

41

: 00:03:01

anxiety about your performance and you

might have that dread on a Sunday night of

42

: 00:03:07

Monday morning arriving, and they're all

very common because what's important is

43

: 00:03:14

often when we feel like an imposter, we

don't want to tell anybody that we feel

44

: 00:03:18

like an imposter because that's the level

of vulnerability that we just can't go to.

45

: 00:03:23

And so we feel like we're

the only person who might be

46

: 00:03:26

worried about our performance.

47

: 00:03:29

We might appear confident to other people.

48

: 00:03:31

We might be in a leadership position where

people think, yeah, we've got it nailed.

49

: 00:03:34

We know what we're doing.

50

: 00:03:36

We're good at what we do.

51

: 00:03:37

But internally, does that, disconnect

between how we see ourselves

52

: 00:03:42

and how other people see us?

53

: 00:03:43

and the research tells us that around

70 percent of adults, it's not just

54

: 00:03:48

women, but tends to affect women,

More than men, but around 70 percent

55

: 00:03:53

of adults at some point in their

career will have imposter feelings.

56

: 00:03:57

And for some people that

might be a permanent state.

57

: 00:04:00

So it might feel like you've

always had these feelings.

58

: 00:04:02

They've always been around.

59

: 00:04:04

It's something you're

always having to deal with.

60

: 00:04:06

And for other people, it might be

something that can come and go.

61

: 00:04:09

So it might be triggered by a promotion

or, moving into a new role, can then bring

62

: 00:04:16

up these imposter feelings, , or it might

be doing something out of your comfort

63

: 00:04:21

zone that might trigger imposter feelings.

64

: 00:04:23

certain situations can trigger,

those feelings of imposter.

65

: 00:04:28

I don't want to call it a syndrome

because it's not a syndrome.

66

: 00:04:31

let me share with you the dictionary

definition of imposter syndrome, but as I

67

: 00:04:35

said it's not a syndrome, and that is that

it's a psychological pattern in which an

68

: 00:04:40

individual doubts their accomplishments

and has a persistent and internalized

69

: 00:04:45

fear of being exposed as a fraud.

70

: 00:04:49

So the good news in that

definition is that it's a pattern.

71

: 00:04:53

It's not a fixed state, even though

it might feel like that to you.

72

: 00:04:57

it's a pattern of thinking

and obviously patterns can be

73

: 00:05:00

broken, patterns can be changed.

74

: 00:05:03

but this is why we can't do that

in 15 minutes because, if you think

75

: 00:05:08

about how long you might have been

feeling like an imposter, if it's,

76

: 00:05:12

something you've dealt with since you're

maybe early 20s, you might have had

77

: 00:05:16

those feelings for 10, 15, 20 years.

78

: 00:05:20

It's not going to be something

that's just going to be magic

79

: 00:05:22

wand and you can, get rid of it.

80

: 00:05:24

It requires a level of commitment

and motivation for change.

81

: 00:05:30

And, work often with a coach or a

counsellor, to change that thinking

82

: 00:05:37

pattern and embed new ways of thinking.

83

: 00:05:40

But the good news is that

it's possible to do that.

84

: 00:05:43

It's not something that you

have to live with forever.

85

: 00:05:46

you can change it.

86

: 00:05:47

And I think sometimes when we've had these

feelings for a long time, we think, well,

87

: 00:05:52

I've just got to accept that's how I am.

88

: 00:05:54

It's part of my personality.

89

: 00:05:55

It's part of my DNA.

90

: 00:05:57

But actually recognizing that it

doesn't have to be like that, that

91

: 00:06:01

you can choose to do something about

it with support, I think can be

92

: 00:06:06

really freeing because it's quite

exhausting living with those feelings

93

: 00:06:11

as we're going to explore in a minute.

94

: 00:06:14

The original research by the two

academics, Klantz and Eames, showed that

95

: 00:06:20

there was a telltale sign for imposter

feelings, and that was the disconnect

96

: 00:06:25

between actual and perceived performance.

97

: 00:06:29

You might be somebody who's,

very good at your job or, seen

98

: 00:06:32

as being very good at your job.

99

: 00:06:33

You get great feedback.

100

: 00:06:35

You get amazing performance reviews.

101

: 00:06:38

People look up to you.

102

: 00:06:39

You're seen as a leader and

inspiration, but inside, you're not.

103

: 00:06:44

You just think, yeah, but

I'm not really that good.

104

: 00:06:48

they've mixed me up with somebody

else, or, they're going to

105

: 00:06:51

find out, I'm going to trip up.

106

: 00:06:53

and it's that disconnect that is the

telltale sign for imposter feelings.

107

: 00:06:58

If I were to ask you to describe

your success to date, If you

108

: 00:07:02

suffer from imposter feelings,

you might say, well, I was lucky.

109

: 00:07:06

I had help to get here.

110

: 00:07:08

I was in the right

place at the right time.

111

: 00:07:10

They couldn't recruit anybody else.

112

: 00:07:11

There was only me left.

113

: 00:07:14

despite evidence to the contrary,

you cannot see yourself in the

114

: 00:07:19

way other people see you and

you judge yourself harshly.

115

: 00:07:22

now there's no definitive

cause of imposter feelings.

116

: 00:07:27

there's lots of thinking about

roots that it can come from and I'm

117

: 00:07:31

not going to go into them all today.

118

: 00:07:33

but it is useful to reflect on, where

this may have established itself.

119

: 00:07:37

It might be from your childhood.

120

: 00:07:39

It might be from a school experience.

121

: 00:07:41

It might be from early career.

122

: 00:07:42

It could be from friendship,

family situations.

123

: 00:07:45

I know for me, when I felt like an

imposter, I could trace it back to my

124

: 00:07:49

early career experience, when I worked

on the management training scheme.

125

: 00:07:54

, some of the stores that I worked in had

a very command and control environment.

126

: 00:07:59

And the management trainees often

called up to account for things

127

: 00:08:04

that might not have gone right.

128

: 00:08:07

Well, it left me with a

bit of a fear of authority.

129

: 00:08:10

It left me feeling I

wanted to be invisible.

130

: 00:08:13

I didn't want to be pushing myself

forward because that could be exposing.

131

: 00:08:18

And so I can see.

132

: 00:08:20

where some of those thoughts came from.

133

: 00:08:23

and certain management styles there were

not conducive to, to me as an individual.

134

: 00:08:29

so it was helpful for me to recognize,

okay, that's where it came from.

135

: 00:08:32

And that's why sometimes I

struggle with the visibility piece.

136

: 00:08:36

I've done a lot of work on it now,

and I've got through that, but I can

137

: 00:08:39

definitely see where it came from.

138

: 00:08:41

what tends to happen is once we've

had some of those experiences, is

139

: 00:08:46

that our brain starts to develop

coping and protecting strategies,

140

: 00:08:50

to enable us to function.

141

: 00:08:53

Because our brain primary focus is

to keep us safe, and therefore it

142

: 00:08:57

has to scan for risk, What it then

develops is a strategy to avoid risk.

143

: 00:09:03

If you've got imposter feelings, the

risk is around feeling vulnerable,

144

: 00:09:07

feeling exposed, feeling that you're

going to be held to account, feeling

145

: 00:09:11

that you're going to be found out.

146

: 00:09:13

And so your brain will develop

strategies to avoid that, which might

147

: 00:09:18

look like holding yourself back.

148

: 00:09:21

It might be playing small.

149

: 00:09:23

It might be not taking risks.

150

: 00:09:25

It might be always feeling

like you need to be in control.

151

: 00:09:29

so that you are not exposed in any way.

152

: 00:09:33

And then that has an impact because

that can lead to you working crazy

153

: 00:09:36

hours because you feel like you've

always got to produce perfect work.

154

: 00:09:40

it might be that you can't

switch off or you procrastinate.

155

: 00:09:43

Or you don't push yourself,

or you avoid the limelight.

156

: 00:09:47

you might feel overwhelmed, and have

that sort of hyper vigilance, always

157

: 00:09:52

scanning for potential, exposure.

158

: 00:09:55

You might feel exhausted from

having to pretend that you're

159

: 00:09:58

confident, particularly if

you're in a leadership role.

160

: 00:10:01

or you might be feeling that you're not

fulfilling your potential because you

161

: 00:10:04

know that you're holding yourself back.

162

: 00:10:06

And all of that is, very tiring,

very exhausting, and can leave you

163

: 00:10:11

feeling that you don't have enough

energy for moving your career

164

: 00:10:15

forward in the way that you want to.

165

: 00:10:18

And I know I'm painting a bit of a bleak

picture, but if you are somebody who

166

: 00:10:24

is feeling like an imposter a lot of

the time, it can take its toll on you.

167

: 00:10:30

if you know that you're changing roles,

moving up, getting promotion, you

168

: 00:10:36

might choose to avoid that because you

know it's going to trigger imposter

169

: 00:10:39

feelings and you're going to, have to go

through all of that anxiety around it.

170

: 00:10:44

it has an impact on your career.

171

: 00:10:47

but as I said earlier, this

is a psychological pattern of

172

: 00:10:50

thinking that you can change.

173

: 00:10:53

We can think about.

174

: 00:10:55

what support we might need to change that.

175

: 00:10:57

As I mentioned earlier, you might choose

you want to work with a professional,

176

: 00:11:01

particularly if these feelings have

been around for quite a long time,

177

: 00:11:04

you might need that additional

support to help you with that change.

178

: 00:11:08

That could be a counselor, it could

be a coach, or it might be you feel,

179

: 00:11:11

Okay, I feel like I could work on

this myself or I could work on it

180

: 00:11:14

with a support of a good friend.

181

: 00:11:17

if you feel that, you've got, the space

to do that, then you can certainly

182

: 00:11:22

start to work through it and I'm

going to give you a technique to

183

: 00:11:24

start to work through some of that.

184

: 00:11:26

but it's important to think about where

the change needs to happen because

185

: 00:11:30

obviously there's levels of change

that we can make, but they're not all

186

: 00:11:33

going to have the impact that you want.

187

: 00:11:35

We can change our environment so we could

think, okay, the culture wasn't conducive

188

: 00:11:39

for me and exacerbated imposter feelings.

189

: 00:11:42

So it might be, okay, I'm going

to find a different culture.

190

: 00:11:45

So I'm going to change jobs, that

might help for a while, but it's not

191

: 00:11:49

ultimately going to change that problem.

192

: 00:11:52

Pattern of thinking, or it might be,

you can think about changing capability.

193

: 00:11:56

So I'm going to upscale because that will

make me feel more confident because I'll

194

: 00:12:00

have those skills or that qualification.

195

: 00:12:03

And again, that will help for a

while, but it won't ultimately

196

: 00:12:06

change that pattern of thinking.

197

: 00:12:09

Because the level of change that we need

to work at around imposter feelings is at

198

: 00:12:13

the beliefs level and the identity level.

199

: 00:12:16

Because even just saying, I am

someone with imposter feelings, you

200

: 00:12:20

are creating an identity around that.

201

: 00:12:23

we need to shift our thinking,

our patterns of thinking around

202

: 00:12:26

our beliefs about ourselves and

our identity that we've created.

203

: 00:12:31

that's the level we need to

be thinking about working at.

204

: 00:12:35

and that's uncomfortable.

205

: 00:12:37

Working at that level is uncomfortable.

206

: 00:12:39

And as I explained, it takes time

and commitment and motivation for

207

: 00:12:43

change, but it's definitely possible.

208

: 00:12:45

For example, I had a client that

I worked with, I would call her

209

: 00:12:48

Sally, that's not her real name,

but just to protect her identity.

210

: 00:12:51

So she worked with me on my Transform

Your Career Confidence program, which

211

: 00:12:56

is a three month program, because she

had just, got herself a new job as an

212

: 00:13:01

director, which she was going to be

starting in three months time, because

213

: 00:13:04

she was working her notice and she knew

she's always triggered by, changes in job.

214

: 00:13:10

And obviously this was a

promotion for her as well.

215

: 00:13:12

She was going to be working as

an director, as I said, and

216

: 00:13:14

she wanted to make a change.

217

: 00:13:16

She didn't want to have to go

into that, having to, manage all

218

: 00:13:20

those kind of internal feelings.

219

: 00:13:22

She was really committed to working

through the, thinking work, the

220

: 00:13:27

cognitive processing work that we

did, the belief work that we did,

221

: 00:13:30

she was really willing to experiment

with the tools and the strategies

222

: 00:13:34

that we identified would help her.

223

: 00:13:36

And she was lucky in that she could do

that experimentation in her existing

224

: 00:13:41

job before she moved into her new job.

225

: 00:13:44

It gave her an opportunity to

change her way of thinking.

226

: 00:13:48

way of approaching certain situations

and, have the opportunity to reflect

227

: 00:13:53

and think about those strategies and

to embed them when they worked for her.

228

: 00:13:58

What that meant for her was

then she went into that new role

229

: 00:14:01

feeling very differently about

herself and her capability because

230

: 00:14:06

she had a lot of experience.

231

: 00:14:07

strategies, she had new skills and new

ways of thinking, and she was committed

232

: 00:14:12

to maintaining them as well, because

it's about really embedding those new

233

: 00:14:17

thinking patterns and new approaches.

234

: 00:14:20

It can really make a difference

to have that sort of shift in how

235

: 00:14:24

you, want to feel going into a

new role or in an existing role.

236

: 00:14:31

The first thing to do, and this is the

one thing I'm going to give you to

237

: 00:14:34

think about doing today or to start

working on, is to understand the rules

238

: 00:14:39

that you have created for yourself

about you, the way of being for you.

239

: 00:14:44

we all create rules that help us

navigate life, some of which are helpful.

240

: 00:14:48

So I mustn't step off the pavement into

the road when there's a car coming.

241

: 00:14:53

That's a really helpful rule that an

unconscious rule that we have developed

242

: 00:14:57

over time that protects us But some of

our rules that we create for ourselves

243

: 00:15:01

and because there are there tend to

be unconscious We're not always aware

244

: 00:15:05

of how distorted they might be They

become unhelpful to us for example

245

: 00:15:11

a few of these rules could be things

like I should keep my head down so they

246

: 00:15:16

People in authority don't focus on me.

247

: 00:15:19

I mustn't challenge or

outshine anyone senior to me.

248

: 00:15:23

That might have been a result of a boss

who, tried to keep you small because you

249

: 00:15:27

were more able than them, potentially.

250

: 00:15:30

I must deliver everything to an

exceptional standard, which could have

251

: 00:15:33

been early school or career experience

where maybe you got hauled over the

252

: 00:15:37

coals for something that wasn't.

253

: 00:15:39

100 percent but those rules get

embedded and then we look for evidence

254

: 00:15:44

to support those rules and they

become our way of navigating life.

255

: 00:15:49

What we want to try and do is actually

understand what rules you might have

256

: 00:15:52

created that are not helpful to you,

that you could think about changing.

257

: 00:15:58

and by making them conscious, it helps us

to see, how unhelpful they are and enables

258

: 00:16:05

us to get a different perspective on that.

259

: 00:16:08

So you can unearth your rules

and it will take time because

260

: 00:16:12

they're more unconscious.

261

: 00:16:13

You might have to have a few goes

at this to bring out the more

262

: 00:16:17

unconscious rules, but, you could

answer these three sentences.

263

: 00:16:23

To try and flesh out your roles.

264

: 00:16:24

So if I was really smart, I would

265

: 00:16:29

I know I'll be competent at X,

insert, skill, capability, whatever

266

: 00:16:34

it might be, when, dot, dot, dot.

267

: 00:16:37

I should always, dot, dot, dot.

268

: 00:16:40

Being able to answer those

questions can help you see what

269

: 00:16:44

might be getting in your way.

270

: 00:16:46

, for example, if I were really

smart, I would understand

271

: 00:16:49

everything the first time.

272

: 00:16:53

I know I'll be competent at X when

I know everything there is to know.

273

: 00:16:58

these are rules that

I've heard people say.

274

: 00:17:00

it's understanding what yours are,

and then when you've managed to flesh

275

: 00:17:03

them out, picking the one that is the

most unhelpful and, to then reframe it.

276

: 00:17:10

a great way to reframe it is

to think about what you would say

277

: 00:17:14

to a friend if they had that rule

to help change the perspective.

278

: 00:17:20

If you had a friend who said,

If I were really smart, I would

279

: 00:17:24

understand everything the first time,

280

: 00:17:29

What would you say to a

friend who had that rule?

281

: 00:17:31

Well, you might say, is that reasonable?

282

: 00:17:34

Does everybody understand

everything first time?

283

: 00:17:37

What about the levels

of complexity involved?

284

: 00:17:39

Isn't it a good thing to sometimes go

away and really deep dive into something?

285

: 00:17:43

And help to shift and

reframe that potential role.

286

: 00:17:49

So that's my So my takeaway for you

for today is to think about fleshing

287

: 00:17:57

out your rules and then noticing

the one that could be the most

288

: 00:18:01

unhelpful and to then reframe it.

289

: 00:18:05

Sometimes you need help to get

these unconscious rules out.

290

: 00:18:08

think about whether there's somebody

who could support you with that.

291

: 00:18:11

if you want some help around this

because you want to go deep on some of

292

: 00:18:14

these things, Get in touch with me and

we can have a chat about working on

293

: 00:18:20

this together to help you move forward.

294

: 00:18:23

more confidently in

your leadership career.

295

: 00:18:27

I know that's a lot of

information to take in.

296

: 00:18:28

I don't want to overwhelm you.

297

: 00:18:29

There's lots of strategies and

tools we can work on, but I wanted

298

: 00:18:32

to give you something to help

you recognize where you might be

299

: 00:18:36

tripping yourself up by unearthing

some of these unconscious rules.

300

: 00:18:46

Thank you so much for listening

to this episode of the Unstuck

301

: 00:18:50

and Unstoppable podcast.

302

: 00:18:52

I have lots of free resources you

can access on my website, ww.career

303

: 00:18:57

tree coaching.co uk, and I'll

also put links in the show notes.

304

: 00:19:02

If you found this episode

helpful, then please subscribe

305

: 00:19:05

so you don't miss the next one.

306

: 00:19:07

And please do share it with a

friend and leave me a review

307

: 00:19:10

and I will personally thank you.

308

: 00:19:13

Remember, you're capable of more

than you know, shine brightly.

309

: 00:19:18

Lead boldly and unlock the

extraordinary potential within you.

310

: 00:19:22

Be unstoppable.