Episode 15 How to Have a Career Conversation with Your Boss

Speaker: 00:00:05

Welcome to Unstuck and Unstoppable,

the podcast for ambitious female

2

: 00:00:10

leaders who want to create more impact,

income, and influence in their careers.

3

: 00:00:14

feel connected to their passion

and purpose, but without

4

: 00:00:17

selling out or burning out.

5

: 00:00:20

I'm Sarah Archer, a leadership coach

and career strategist, helping women

6

: 00:00:24

like you thrive in leadership roles

while staying true to your values.

7

: 00:00:29

I'm the founder of CareerTree

Coaching and have over 15 years of

8

: 00:00:33

coaching experience and significant HR

leadership experience to share with you.

9

: 00:00:39

I know as a female leader it can

be hard to find time to focus

10

: 00:00:43

on your career aspirations.

11

: 00:00:45

The day job can be all consuming.

12

: 00:00:48

Plus, no matter how senior you are,

there are always going to be times

13

: 00:00:52

when you feel stuck, when you have

self doubt, or feel like an imposter.

14

: 00:00:57

And that's where unstuck

and unstoppable comes in.

15

: 00:01:01

Each week I'll be sharing practical

strategies, insightful interviews and

16

: 00:01:06

inspiring stories to help you boost

your confidence, lead with purpose

17

: 00:01:10

and achieve sustainable success.

18

: 00:01:13

If you're ready to stop playing

small and unlock the incredible

19

: 00:01:17

potential you have within you and feel

unstoppable, you're in the right place.

20

: 00:01:22

Let's get started.

21

: 00:01:28

Welcome to episode 15.

22

: 00:01:30

I am so glad you're here.

23

: 00:01:32

Today's episode is about how to

have a career conversation with

24

: 00:01:36

your boss, which is something that

people don't often think about doing.

25

: 00:01:40

And what I thought I'd do is

talk about the benefits of it and

26

: 00:01:43

also a process that you can follow

if you're thinking about having a

27

: 00:01:48

career conversation with your boss.

28

: 00:01:50

Is this something you've done?

29

: 00:01:51

Have you had a specific career

conversation with your boss?

30

: 00:01:53

Is it something you're thinking

about doing and maybe you're a

31

: 00:01:58

little bit apprehensive about?

32

: 00:01:59

Let's just think about what

is a career conversation.

33

: 00:02:02

definitely something that's separate

to appraisal and performance review.

34

: 00:02:06

It's separate to your one

to one catch ups.

35

: 00:02:10

It's separate to your

supervision sessions.

36

: 00:02:13

It is a dedicated conversation

to talk about your career.

37

: 00:02:17

I would recommend you're having

these career conversations two or

38

: 00:02:21

even three times a year, and that

they are separate to all those other

39

: 00:02:26

types of meetings that you have.

40

: 00:02:28

And there are opportunities to think

about where you are in your career

41

: 00:02:34

and where you want to go and to engage

your boss, and through him or her, the

42

: 00:02:40

organisation, in supporting your career

aspirations and helping you achieve them.

43

: 00:02:46

And if your boss doesn't know about

what you want to achieve in your

44

: 00:02:51

career, where you want to go to, how

you want to develop, then they're not

45

: 00:02:56

going to be able to do the things that

they can do to enable that for you.

46

: 00:03:00

It's really important to

have those conversations.

47

: 00:03:02

If you're a leader yourself

as well, to have those career

48

: 00:03:05

conversations with your staff.

49

: 00:03:07

And I have gone into organizations and

run training sessions on How to have

50

: 00:03:12

career conversations for both managers

and employees because those organizations

51

: 00:03:17

have wanted to create a career culture

where those conversations are happening

52

: 00:03:21

on a regular basis, because there's

lots of benefits for the organization

53

: 00:03:24

of having those conversations.

54

: 00:03:26

But those organizations can be rarer.

55

: 00:03:29

So if it's something that's not in your

culture at the moment, it can feel a bit

56

: 00:03:32

daunting to have those, which is why I

thought it would be good for us to do a

57

: 00:03:36

session on having career conversations.

58

: 00:03:39

Thinking about how your boss can help

you through having these conversations.

59

: 00:03:42

One of the first things they can do is

give you perspective so they can give you

60

: 00:03:47

their view on where you want to be, what

you want to achieve, and they can give

61

: 00:03:52

you some useful insights and feedback.

62

: 00:03:55

They can also be a door opener for you.

63

: 00:03:58

They've probably got lots of connections

that could be helpful to you, and they

64

: 00:04:03

can also enable opportunities for you.

65

: 00:04:07

They've got a different view of what's

going on in the organisation, in the

66

: 00:04:11

industry, and they can have you as top of

mind to position you for the opportunities

67

: 00:04:16

that are going to give you what you need.

68

: 00:04:18

There's lots of benefits from having

this conversation with your boss.

69

: 00:04:23

And it's useful also to think about

well how's it helping the business for

70

: 00:04:27

me to have a conversation about me?

71

: 00:04:30

And it's useful for the business

because they can retain you when

72

: 00:04:33

you think about how much it costs

to recruit a member of staff.

73

: 00:04:36

It's quite considerable.

74

: 00:04:38

So they can help retain you.

75

: 00:04:39

They can develop you.

76

: 00:04:40

They can enable you to have

more impact in the business.

77

: 00:04:44

There's lots of advantages for

the business of this conversation.

78

: 00:04:47

If that's been in your mind

about, can I ask for this?

79

: 00:04:50

Is it going to be helpful to the business?

80

: 00:04:52

There are, really valuable.

81

: 00:04:54

Ripples from you having this conversation.

82

: 00:04:56

It's good to position it in that way.

83

: 00:04:58

But what I would say is, this is about

you driving this and being proactive.

84

: 00:05:03

I say to all my clients, no

one's going to be as interested

85

: 00:05:06

in your career as you are.

86

: 00:05:08

Everyone's busy.

87

: 00:05:09

So this is about you being proactive

and driving it and engaging

88

: 00:05:13

your boss with your career.

89

: 00:05:15

And I'm going to talk about

how you can do that today.

90

: 00:05:18

You can use the conversation to

think about present and future.

91

: 00:05:23

Sometimes when we're talking about

career conversations, you feel

92

: 00:05:25

like it's always about advancement,

which it can definitely be.

93

: 00:05:28

It can be, I'm here now and

this is where I want to be.

94

: 00:05:32

I need help to get there.

95

: 00:05:34

So that could be part

of that conversation.

96

: 00:05:36

Or it could be, I'm here now and

I'm really enjoying where I am

97

: 00:05:41

now, but I want to do X and Y now.

98

: 00:05:46

How can you help me do that?

99

: 00:05:48

It doesn't always have to be

about where you want to go.

100

: 00:05:51

It can be making current,

more stimulating, more

101

: 00:05:55

enjoyable, more challenging.

102

: 00:05:57

So thinking about those two things

can be quite useful as well.

103

: 00:06:00

But there are challenges to

having a career conversation.

104

: 00:06:03

The first challenge is time, both yours

and your bosses, because when you're

105

: 00:06:07

working as a senior leader, diaries

are often jam packed with meetings,

106

: 00:06:12

and it can feel like, how can I?

107

: 00:06:14

Find the time in my diary and in my

boss's diary for this conversation,

108

: 00:06:19

but it's prioritizing you and, making

sure that you can find that time to

109

: 00:06:27

have those conversations to enable

you to get from them what you need.

110

: 00:06:31

It's about, okay, I've got to do this.

111

: 00:06:32

I've got to find the time.

112

: 00:06:33

Then the second challenge

could be around clarity.

113

: 00:06:36

Feeling I've got to know the

answers to where I'm going to have

114

: 00:06:40

that advancement conversation.

115

: 00:06:42

And sometimes you do know where

you want to go, but sometimes it

116

: 00:06:44

can feel a bit unclear, but your

boss could help you with that.

117

: 00:06:48

Or it could be clarity around what

you need, because obviously The career

118

: 00:06:52

conversation is about your boss coming up

with the answers for your career dilemma.

119

: 00:06:57

It's about you being clear about

what you need from them and them then

120

: 00:07:01

enabling that, because you don't want

to give more stuff to your boss to do

121

: 00:07:04

because that's just not going to happen.

122

: 00:07:07

It is about you getting clear about

what do I need from this conversation?

123

: 00:07:10

And there could be different

aspects of what you need.

124

: 00:07:12

It could be, I need time.

125

: 00:07:15

I'm really overloaded at the moment,

but I need to prioritize my development,

126

: 00:07:19

I need my boss to help me create time.

127

: 00:07:22

Working out what can I not do, or how

can I do things differently to create

128

: 00:07:26

that time to get the development

exposure, whatever it is I need,

129

: 00:07:32

or it could be about capacity.

130

: 00:07:34

I really want to work on this

particular area of work because I

131

: 00:07:37

want to have impact in this area.

132

: 00:07:39

But with the resources I currently have,

I don't have the capacity to do that.

133

: 00:07:44

But there's real business

benefits of me doing that capacity

134

: 00:07:47

work or that impactful work.

135

: 00:07:49

How could I?

136

: 00:07:51

increase my capacity

to be able to do that.

137

: 00:07:53

And your boss can help

you think that through.

138

: 00:07:55

It could be around connections.

139

: 00:07:57

As I mentioned, your boss is

probably well plugged into the

140

: 00:08:00

industry, to the organization.

141

: 00:08:02

It could be being able to put

you in touch with people who can.

142

: 00:08:05

Help you in some way it could be

visibility, if I want to be keynote

143

: 00:08:11

speaker at this conference or I want

to be a thought leader on this, your

144

: 00:08:15

boss is going to have some great

ideas about how you can access that.

145

: 00:08:19

Or it could be guidance, noticing

what are the gaps for you in

146

: 00:08:22

terms of where you want to go.

147

: 00:08:24

They can give you some guidance

about how you can plug those gaps.

148

: 00:08:27

It could be job information, maybe

your boss has walked the route that

149

: 00:08:32

you want to take and they can give

you information about what's the

150

: 00:08:36

reality of this next role for me?

151

: 00:08:38

What the challenge is, what the Highs,

what do I need to be looking out for?

152

: 00:08:43

Being clear about what you need from

them, and you're not necessarily going

153

: 00:08:46

to ask for all of these things, but it

can help you use that time wisely and

154

: 00:08:51

get from them what you really need.

155

: 00:08:53

It can feel challenging

to get that clarity.

156

: 00:08:55

But it might be saying to your

boss, I need clarity, I need this

157

: 00:08:57

career conversation to help me

work out what it is I really need.

158

: 00:09:00

And they can just be that

sounding board for you.

159

: 00:09:02

And then there could be a challenge

around taking action, I'm going to

160

: 00:09:04

have this conversation, but then

I'm going to have to take action.

161

: 00:09:07

I just don't have time to do that.

162

: 00:09:09

But, it is important to be able to

move things forward by having these

163

: 00:09:13

conversations and recognizing actually.

164

: 00:09:16

It's being proactive in your career and

you're prioritizing your career, which is

165

: 00:09:19

as important as prioritizing your work.

166

: 00:09:22

So noticing the challenges, but

still deciding, yes, this is

167

: 00:09:26

something I really want to do.

168

: 00:09:27

It's going to be valuable to me

to have this career conversation.

169

: 00:09:30

Let's think about then how

you make it happen and how you

170

: 00:09:35

utilize that time really well.

171

: 00:09:38

The first thing I would

say to you is prepare.

172

: 00:09:41

Getting clear, am I talking

to my boss about future?

173

: 00:09:43

Am I talking to them about present?

174

: 00:09:45

And thinking about what you need and

what you want, but not feeling like

175

: 00:09:50

you've got to have all the answers,

but certainly you're not just going to

176

: 00:09:53

go into that conversation unprepared

because that's going to be a waste

177

: 00:09:57

of time for you and for your boss.

178

: 00:10:00

Then you want to establish this dedicated

meeting, so you want to be clear that

179

: 00:10:05

you want to talk to your boss about your

career, that it is a career conversation.

180

: 00:10:09

So they're not going

to have any surprises.

181

: 00:10:12

They're not going to think they're

going to be talking to you about, the

182

: 00:10:14

project you're running at the moment

or whatever, they know that you want to

183

: 00:10:17

have a career conversation with them.

184

: 00:10:20

And then in the actual meeting, you

want to start on a positive note.

185

: 00:10:23

Cause imagine if one of your direct

reports books in a career conversation

186

: 00:10:27

with you, you might be thinking,

Oh God, are they going to resign?

187

: 00:10:30

Are they going to be

asking for a pay rise?

188

: 00:10:32

You're going to be maybe anticipating.

189

: 00:10:34

The worst.

190

: 00:10:35

So you want to open that conversation

on a positive note and setting the

191

: 00:10:39

scene, reassuring them maybe that you're

not, you're not going to be leaving.

192

: 00:10:42

You're committed to your current

role, to the organization, you will

193

: 00:10:47

value their insight into your career.

194

: 00:10:49

You're setting the scene for them.

195

: 00:10:51

They're not going to have to be

on their guard because they think.

196

: 00:10:54

You're going to want a pay rise

or a a negotiation around, the

197

: 00:10:57

fact that you might be leaving.

198

: 00:10:59

You might want to then

discuss your journey so far.

199

: 00:11:02

You might want to remind them

of what you've done already,

200

: 00:11:04

where you are in your career.

201

: 00:11:05

It depends perhaps what your relationship

is like, how distant they are from

202

: 00:11:09

your your previous career or how long

ago it was that you were interviewed

203

: 00:11:12

by them, but you might want to remind

them about your journey so far.

204

: 00:11:16

And then you probably want to outline

what your vision of success looks

205

: 00:11:20

like, whether that's advancement in

terms of where you want to move to.

206

: 00:11:24

And your time scale for that, or

whether it's about your current needs

207

: 00:11:28

to make your current career even better,

your current job more fulfilling.

208

: 00:11:33

And then you might want to ask them

for some feedback around what do they

209

: 00:11:37

see as maybe some gaps for you or

some things that you could do more

210

: 00:11:42

of, things you could do less of.

211

: 00:11:44

those kind of conversations, getting some

really useful feedback on your career.

212

: 00:11:48

Remember, it's not performance

review, you're not asking them for

213

: 00:11:50

performance feedback, you're asking

them for feedback around your career

214

: 00:11:55

aspirations because, you're wanting

their guidance in terms of your career.

215

: 00:12:00

And then it's doing some

exploration about what are their

216

: 00:12:03

ideas, what are their thoughts

about how you could approach this.

217

: 00:12:07

Because you might have come up with

some ideas about what you want them

218

: 00:12:09

to help you with, but they might

have other perspectives as well,

219

: 00:12:13

which are going to be useful.

220

: 00:12:15

And then you want to agree a plan, so

if you're asking them for, you want

221

: 00:12:20

them to look out for opportunities

for you to engage more with a.

222

: 00:12:22

with the C suite or maybe you're asking

them to look out for opportunities for

223

: 00:12:28

you to speak on behalf of your department

or in your industry or, whatever it

224

: 00:12:34

is you've identified you'd really like

their support on, you're going to agree.

225

: 00:12:38

Those things with them, and then you're

going to book in the next meeting,

226

: 00:12:44

because you want to have these career

conversations on a regular ish basis.

227

: 00:12:48

It might be saying, I found this really

valuable, can I book in another career

228

: 00:12:52

conversation with you in six months?

229

: 00:12:54

Thinking about, what time

frame is going to work for you.

230

: 00:12:56

But getting that in the diary, again,

is going to help you stay focused.

231

: 00:13:00

I've had this conversation, I

need to, move progress forward.

232

: 00:13:03

So in six months I'm not having

the same conversation with them.

233

: 00:13:06

And also they're then again

committing to supporting you

234

: 00:13:10

within your career aspirations.

235

: 00:13:12

And then you might want to, after

the meeting, do a follow up.

236

: 00:13:15

Confirming what you've agreed

or summarising the conversation,

237

: 00:13:19

which would be helpful for

you, but also for them to know.

238

: 00:13:22

What you're looking for from them.

239

: 00:13:24

Again, you're going to be

a senior manager yourself.

240

: 00:13:26

So thinking about what's helpful to you.

241

: 00:13:28

If you've had that conversation with

your direct report, is it helpful to

242

: 00:13:31

know point by point or just overview

what's going to be most useful.

243

: 00:13:36

And again, you can also think about.

244

: 00:13:39

In terms of preparing for that

meeting, what your boss is like in

245

: 00:13:43

terms of how they communicate, how

they take in information, are they

246

: 00:13:46

really big picture and less granular?

247

: 00:13:49

Are they quite granular about stuff?

248

: 00:13:51

Thinking about How to get the best

out of that conversation, is it

249

: 00:13:55

better to do the big picture with

them and then you do the more detail

250

: 00:13:59

and get them just to agree to it?

251

: 00:14:00

Or are they good at coming up

with solutions and generating

252

: 00:14:03

ideas or, are they somebody who

likes preparation in advance?

253

: 00:14:07

Do you need to send them a bit

of an agenda about what you

254

: 00:14:09

want to talk through with them?

255

: 00:14:10

So being strategic about how you're going

to get the best out of this time with them

256

: 00:14:15

is going to mean that you're going to meet

what you need from it, but also they're

257

: 00:14:19

going to find it a useful experience

and they're going to be open to having

258

: 00:14:22

another career conversation with you.

259

: 00:14:24

And the final point to say is if you

feel like you don't have this kind of

260

: 00:14:28

relationship with your boss that you could

have this type of conversation because

261

: 00:14:32

let's face it, sometimes our relationship

with our line manager can be challenging.

262

: 00:14:38

If that's Something you don't feel

you can do with your current boss.

263

: 00:14:42

And it's looking for somebody

else that you could have this

264

: 00:14:44

career conversation with.

265

: 00:14:46

That might be somebody else

in the organization that you

266

: 00:14:49

have a good relationship with.

267

: 00:14:51

It could be a previous boss who

you value their insights in.

268

: 00:14:55

It could be that you have a mentor that

you could have this conversation with.

269

: 00:15:00

Or it could be that you feel

actually maybe a career coach

270

: 00:15:04

would be somebody that I would

need to have this conversation with

271

: 00:15:06

because I don't have access to it.

272

: 00:15:08

internally or externally.

273

: 00:15:10

But, knowing that actually there's a lot

of value you can get from having other

274

: 00:15:14

people's perspective around where you want

to take your career or how you want to

275

: 00:15:19

make your current role more fulfilling,

more stretching it's very valuable.

276

: 00:15:26

I hope you felt inspired to

have a career conversation.

277

: 00:15:29

And I would love, to know from

you, if you do go on and book

278

: 00:15:33

some time with your boss and.

279

: 00:15:35

Follow that kind of loose ish structure

around having a career conversation.

280

: 00:15:38

I'd love to know how you got on.

281

: 00:15:40

This episode is also available

as a LinkedIn Live and I'll put

282

: 00:15:44

a link for you in the show notes.

283

: 00:15:46

And while you're over on LinkedIn, please

do connect with me if we're not already

284

: 00:15:56

Thank you so much for listening

to this episode of the Unstuck

285

: 00:15:59

and Unstoppable podcast.

286

: 00:16:01

I have lots of free resources you

can access on my website, ww.career

287

: 00:16:06

tree coaching.co

288

: 00:16:08

uk, and I'll also put

links in the show notes.

289

: 00:16:12

If you found this episode

helpful, then please subscribe

290

: 00:16:15

so you don't miss the next one.

291

: 00:16:17

And please do share it with a

friend and leave me a review

292

: 00:16:20

and I will personally thank you.

293

: 00:16:22

Remember, you're capable of more

than you know, shine brightly.

294

: 00:16:27

Lead boldly and unlock the

extraordinary potential within you.

295

: 00:16:32

Be unstoppable.